What’s p*rn to you is fine for me

Let me start up front by saying I have already made it clear that I believe naturist bloggers/tweeters should avoid posting images from p*rn sites. I think it muddies the water and perpetuate the social association between simple nudity and sexual activity and arousal. A recent conversation with a woman making her way into clothes free living has heightened my awareness of the significance of the images we connect with the clothes free life’s even more. So when I came across this tweet from a naturist follower I could not help but comment.

https://twitter.com/thenudewriter/status/533848453353603073

My comment was that the photo was actually from a p*rn site so was more about titillation and not body freedom or being one’s true self. Responses to my comment included comments like.

P*rn sites steal and use naturist all the time too

At least they are real (implied not the surgically altered kind)

My reply guys who post d*ck pics in their Twitter feed would say the same about themselves they are real.

The photo on its own is not p*rn

Would it be different if it had another label?

What is the dividing between p*rn and naturist pics

My reply I don’t know that there is and that is the issue.

So what do you think does it help or hurt the clothes free cause to have naturists tweeters/bloggers indiscriminately post pics from p*rn sites. Bare your thoughts and take the poll

Authors note: When this site started as a tumblr a couple years ago there was none of the sensitivity to this issue so there may still be a few pics that fit the criteria this buried in the archives. If you come across one let us know so we can remove. There may even be a reward in it for some lucky visitor.

About the author: cflmag

Curator of news and information for clothes free life

21 Comments
  1. All-Nudist.com 4 years ago

    we have maintained for years that the use of nudity in legitimate nudist/naturist websites should always be in context, as opposed to indiscriminate galleries of naked people. Those who wish to look at naked photos can find them anywhere.

    Your picture makes a perfect example. You identify it as coming from a porn site, which may be true, but a simple Google search (https://www.google.com/search?q=imgur+onoff&tbm=isch&tbs=simg:CAQSYxphCxCo1NgEGgAMCxCwjKcIGjwKOggCEhSMHv8g0ybNIPod1SDPINsR0CbRHBogue783OJmysls1SHs3qIthARyEXa1FnJu1kejNI06CokMCxCOrv4IGgoKCAgBEgSVtjk3DA&sa=X&ei=VdR_VMLwN42zyASFoILABg&ved=0CBwQ2A4oAQ&biw=1455&bih=739) indicates that it is unlikely that it ORIGINATED from there. There is really no way to identify the origins of these images, and they are used interchangeably between ‘naturist’ and porn sites.

    What is the purpose of galleries of naked people, in the name of ‘naturism’, when they are indistinguishable (to the general public) from porn sites? What does that say about nudism/naturism? That we are porn-mongers?

    Better to avoid the issue altogether and stick to relevant content with appropriate illustration.

  2. naturistsholiday 4 years ago

    Reblogged this on Naturist Holidays in Europe.

  3. Pipermac avatar
    pipermac5 4 years ago

    Sorry about that. My bad… I had forgotten that dissenting ideas and non-mainstream comments aren’t welcome here, and that they get chewed-up, twisted, and thrown back in my face.

    • Earl D avatar
      homeclothesfree 4 years ago

      See not that’s not fair if that’s not what we have been doing I don’t what is. You have been staying your opinion I have have stated mine. To start saying open conversation is not welcome is just being defensive in my opinion. I could have blocked or removed any of your comments. But I want very much to have an honest discussion.

      I have been trying to facilitate an open and free conversation with everyone speaking their mind. No one was personally attacked and opinion are being set forward. So to say that is not the case does a disservice to genuine open and honest conversation and again it doesn’t address the issue. Does posting photos from p*rn sites help or hurt the clothes free cause. If we can’t have honest conversation about this then we might as well pack it in call it a day. And just crawl into our respective holes.

  4. hontouniheart 4 years ago

    As a female new to the clothes free lifestyle, I’ve found myself struggling a lot with this. I’m not one to judge and control someone’s self expression. At the same time, actions have an impact.

    I can find p*rn any time. I saw it before I hit double digits in age. I knew it before I stepped into clothes free living. So for me, it’s like…what does this have to do with clothes free living distinct from clothed lifestyle? If every time I go to a clothes free site there are predominately sexually explicit photos, then what is the point?

    When I encounter places where nudity is often depicted sexually under the guise of naturism and “body acceptance,” “body positivity” or “open-mindedness” I am actually discouraged. 1) Such posts tend to have a very small variety of body types (e.g. age, size, shape, possibly color). 2) Comments made on those posts tend to rate and judge a person’s body, drawing more attention to areas that could marked as flawed, not enough, abnormal. “That’s a big d*ck,” “Her breasts are perfect,” “Her a&& is the truth,” “I’d marry that,” “I want a poster / sculpture of that,” and so forth. It’s body NEGATIVE to me, because it’s acceptance of very few bodies in very limited circumstances. It locks the unclothed body back in the jar of “sexual.” There’s nothing inspiring about that for me.

    I go through this every day. I post something about my clothes free living (yoga, reading, writing, dancing, etc.), and it doesn’t inspire nearly as much conversation as the suggestive photo of another over which comments pour on the perfection of that person’s body. It just feels like no one is interested in talking about the broader clothes free lifestyle. It’s just all sex. That’s confusing and discouraging for me.

    The impact of conflating clothes free living with p*rn on a regular basis is the reinforcement that the naked body belongs in a bed behind closed doors. It reinforces comparison, rankings and division. It reinforces ageism, weight / body type preferences, and other popular discriminatory practices. It destroys.

    To me, there is no wrong in having an explosively wild sexual side. I have it. At the same time, I’m also a human made of much more. I love reading, writing, cooking, working, dancing, sleeping, etc. clothes free. I like to write about that, and I like to read about that from others: how they go about daily life and fun adventures in their own skin, them as them. That’s what inspires me. That’s what makes in normal for me. That is what makes me feel welcome, safe normal and accepted.

    • Bare Beach Bum 4 years ago

      I agree with hontouniheart and it is great to get a woman’s perspective. There are many sites that claim to be nudist or naturist sites that are just a step up from being a porn site or are a porn site masking as a naturist site. Then there are the sites that attempt to be a naturist site but are infiltrated by guys (I had to say it) just looking for sexual excitement for free. It is very difficult to keep a site to naturism only and filter out the guys adding the sexual angle to it. Isn’t it the same in real life though? We’ve all seen the pervs at the beach or resort. We even had one in our social nudity group that we had to ban.

      It is shameful that some guys can’t have a bit of self-control and decorum to make it comfortable for women to freely and openly enjoy nudity like guys do. I applaud hontouniheart for putting up with it all including the porn and body shape/size comments. We all love seeing something beautiful, but like life bodies come in all shapes and sizes and ages. They are all beautiful.

      I enjoy all normal activities nude like hontouniheart but they are more fun with other people just like any other activity. Bringing porn into the picture scares men and women away from enjoyment. This is why I cannot find a nude yoga class because the female instructors that I find don’t want a male because it could make it uncomfortable for the women. We ruin it for ourselves guys. Sexual excitement is the last thing I am thinking about when exercising or doing yoga, but it is the connotation of a single naked guy that makes women uncomfortable being nude around us in social situations. The funny thing is that I’ve been told that some women are more self-conscious being nude around other women than men.

      Although this topic always generates a tremendous quantity of discussion, I think it is time to move on to the corollary of making nudity and naturism more welcoming for all.

      • Earl D avatar
        homeclothesfree 4 years ago

        You raise a good point. That’s an important issue as well but it gets buried by the sexual stuff all too often. I think because we live in such a sexually obsessed society. I do think guys sometimes unknowingly sometimes very intentionally can make it hard for others oftentimes women who don’t see the world the way we do to feel comfortable in clothes free community whether online or in face to face social setting.

    • Earl D avatar
      homeclothesfree 4 years ago

      @hontouniheart thanks for sharing a much needed woman’s perspective

  5. Earl D avatar
    homeclothesfree 4 years ago

    I wonder if any women would like to comment

  6. Bare Beach Bum 4 years ago

    The first two posters provided good explanations to further muddy these waters that are a constant form of contention and discussion. The lines between porn and just nudity are in the eyes of the beholder which is why there is so much confusion. Society for hundreds of years has indoctrinated us to equate nudity with sex which is why some people consider all nudity and nude photos porn.

    I have been in a few Twitter wars with the purists because they accuse me of promoting porn and say that I’m not a naturist/nudist. I personally don’t categorize someone to only one group because of their preferences. I am very comfortable with nudity in any situation and I feel the same way about sex, but there is a time and place for everything. I reflect that in my behavior and photography. Just like pipermac5 stated, I photograph beautiful women in nature nude. Sometimes they are in a public setting with clothed people around. Because they are being exhibitionists, does that make what I do porn or naturist activism? Sometimes there is body contact or a merging of the forms without sexual activity because the photos are sexy and arousing does that make it porn? Not to me. I can do the same shots clothed and make them just as erotic so if you call the first porn then you’d have to call the second porn as well.

    On to full exposure of genitalia. If a man or woman fully exposes their genitalia, does that make it porn? Men can’t help but fully expose themselves. I really don’t think that it does either. Even photos used in porn can be taken out of context and be quite harmless as do many naturist/nudist posters. This is where the ire of the purists come in. Most of us can tell when a shot is professionally done for porn and there are those that think that crosses the boundaries.

    I really don’t try to classify the content and complain about it. If it is of sexual nature then I’d never show it in a naturist context and visa versa. There is a time and place for everything. If there is sexual content then I call it porn otherwise it is just another nude photograph of another work of art that is the human body.

    We need to work hard to divorce the belief that nudity=sex. That is why I do not condone any video or photograph of sexual activity in a naturist/nudist site or forum nor does it have its place at a real-life activity. For years I have been introducing women to naturism as a safe and relaxing way of life and it irks me when a person ruins it by the introduction of sex or porn into the discussion.

  7. Ivan Akirov 4 years ago

    I got to agree to Pipermac, the fact a picture comes or not from a p*rn site doesn’t necessarily make it inconvenient or bad or whatever negative adjective you want to use. It is what you depict in the picture what matters, no one can deny the right that, let’s say, Janine Lindemulder, may have to practice a naturist life and promote it, besides making a living in the adult industry (by the way, it was just a name, I don’t know if she had even tried naturism), just as any of us, naturist or not, may keep a job in any other industry, even one harmful to nature or humanity, and we all have sex…

    • Earl D avatar
      homeclothesfree 4 years ago

      That idea denies the reality that we make associations all the time that become embedded in our minds and one of those associations is that nudity = sex. While some people want to suggest that is not an issue I believe it is a monumental issue for the clothes free community. Clothes free living will NEVER be normalized if that association is not broken and the use of images from p*rn sites only reinforce that association. That has huge ramifications for the clothes free cause.

    • Bare Beach Bum 4 years ago

      Yes there are adult entertainers that are naturists. I have known a few when I lived in SoCal. When they were at the beach or resort, they definitely left their work at the office. Afterall it is just their job.

  8. Pipermac avatar
    pipermac5 4 years ago

    This highlights a real problem in the nudist community, that there is no mutually-agreeable “standard” that divides nudism from “porn”. Many nudists would consider MC, one of the owners of Terra Cotta Inn, to be an exhibitionist, and perhaps they are right, but she is obviously a nudist who is comfortable in her own skin, has nothing to hide, and enjoys showing it all off. I respect her for her openness.

    The original discussion on Twitter centered around a couple of pictures from Abby Winters. Some of Abby Winters’ work is very definitely erotic and sexually-explicit, but not all of it is. Some of her work is quite “naturist”, showing young, “girl-next-door”-type ladies enjoying being nude in nature. Do we reject ALL of her work just because some of it is erotic and sexually-explicit? I don’t, because I know the difference.

    Katya Clover is a very popular model on the internet who works for several sites, including Met-Art. Katya is a self-proclaimed nudist, as is her husband Vlad, who is a professional photographer, and who shoots quite a bit of her work. He has also appeared with her in a few sets of photos. Again, some of her work is definitely erotic, and some is even sexually-explicit, but a lot of it centers on her enjoying the freedom to be nude in some very exotic locations. Do we reject ALL of her work just because some of it is erotic and sexually-explicit? Again, I don’t, because I know the difference.

    This discussion also highlights another problem that I see in the nudist community, that there are a LOT of “nudists” who still hang on to the TEXTILE attitude that exposed genitals are lewd. Sorry folks, but if you claim to be a nudist, but still believe that exposed genitals are lewd, PUT YOUR PANTIES BACK ON AND GO BACK TO LIVING AS A TEXTILE! Either ALL of our body-parts are beautiful and acceptable, or NONE of them are. As for the photos of men and women lying spread-eagle with everything on display, I have seen plenty of men and women at Cypress Cove sunning like that. That is just how some people do it, and the photos that capture that “display” are no more lewd than the people they are taken of. In the same vein, a photo of a man with an erection is NOT lewd, but if he posts a photo of his erection, he has crossed the line. That is one photo he should keep to himself. Erections are a normal part of manhood, and we need to accept that fact.

    I know these comments are going to draw the ire of some nudists, but I see the hypocrisy of many who claim to be nudists. I don’t like it, and I am going to expose it wherever it rears its ugly head.

    • Earl D avatar
      homeclothesfree 4 years ago

      I disagree with your premise that there is no clear distinction. We make the distinction at clothes free resorts all the time. The ones that are not in the swinger lifestyle anyway. The standard is erections and sexual or sexually suggestive behavior including spread eagle is something to be done in private. I believe that gets lost online because of the dominance of p*rn in the online nude space. Also because some folks pursuing nudity (as opposed to clothes free living) have a hard time filtering a lifetime of social conditioning.

      Erections serve one purpose, they are not for peeing or they are for sexual arousal and release. I get them every healthy man does but when am pursuing excitement not otherwise. In the same way I just don’t pee on myself all the time and anywhere I don’t get an erection anytime anywhere and show it off. The clothes free life is about being body positive natural acceptance not showing of the body. That’s is what clothes do.

      The point of the so called girl next door pics you mentioned to tittilate and arouse. I wish we guys could be more transparent about that and not pretend. I think it would create a more inviting entrance for women in the clothes free community. If we can’t figure this out and reach some kind of distinction then we might as well resign ourselves to being considered sexual perverts by the rest of society. That’s what is at stake when we muddy the water and blur the lines and I’m just not comfortable with that.

      • Bare Beach Bum 4 years ago

        As I said in my comment, I can provide many pictures of clothed that titillate and arouse. We see them in advertising all of the time. Again it all depends on the context that they are used. I would never use one of these pictures if I was trying to promote a naturist event especially if it was appealing to families. If you are going to use images in a naturist context then choose appropriately.

        • Earl D avatar
          homeclothesfree 4 years ago

          I agree with you outside of social conditioning I think clothes do more to tittilate than the clothes free body unless there is a sexual intent. In which case clothed or clothes free doesn’t matter.

      • Pipermac avatar
        pipermac5 4 years ago

        I never suggested that there is no distinction, because there is, but just because a man or woman is comfortable sunning spread-eagle does not make it sexually-suggestive. Cypress Cove is NOT a swinger or lifestyle resort. In fact, not only is it family-friendly, it is a family-resort which several children call “home”. I have never seen anyone called-out for sunning spread-eagle, even though I have seen it virtually every time I have been there. The families that live there believe that their children are far safer there than anywhere else. A father of a six-year-old girl told me that he is far more nervous about her safety at the textile school she attends than when she is at home. Both parents are on staff.

        Only a blind man will never be titillated by the sight of a lovely women, whether clothed or nude. I do not check my sexuality at the gate, but I do know the “who”, “where” and “when” of sex, and a nudist resort doesn’t satisfy any of those criterion.

        Regardless of how careful we are to present nudism as being “non-sexual”, the vast majority of our society will still believe that we are sexual-perverts. The facts, regardless of how we present them, simply do not count. For them, perception is nine-tenths of reality.

        • Earl D avatar
          homeclothesfree 4 years ago

          I did not say anything about Cypress Cove in my comment so I am not sure why I needed to defend them. The problems I have with the idea that society will think that is who we are anyway response it it is an overly broad generalization. It justify your opinion but doesn’t address the issue. Does it hurt or help the cause of clothes free living not just getting your clothes off. As for idea that any read blooded man will get aroused at the site of a beautiful woman I wonder how many women like being objectified through that lens? Could this be another reason why women are so reluctant to join the clothes free community. If they believe every time they take their clothes off they are going to be seen as object of tittilation for men’s arousal.

          All I am saying is we need to be honest about the issue and not deny the problem exists and that we add to it by echoing the sexualized patterns of the people we claim we want to accept our way of life. If we don’t want that acceptance then that is another thing all together. Then we should not complain about being marginalized.

  9. Martin (@martinwb10) 4 years ago

    I completely agree with your comments on this subject. Since I’ve been on twitter I’ve come across many who call themselves Naturists/Nudists but then use their account to tweet mostly porn and sexual activity and this I believe does nothing to help us true naturists persuade textiles that our love of being un-clothed is nothing to do with sex/porn.

    I also understand the difficulty of drawing the line between a genuine naturist photo and a porn photo. Some photos out there are in a grey area and sometimes it’s really difficult, I use the motto of ‘if in doubt’ don’t tweet it. I post a lot of photos of myself as a naturist in normal everyday settings, like vacuuming and ironing and gardening, this I feel promotes naturism as being a lifestyle choice, enjoying everyday life naked.

    There is still a sexual part of me, just like us all, we are only human after all and sex is a very normal part of life; but sex should never be mixed with naturism. It does not help our cause, it promotes negativity and above all else it just reinforces textiles views that being naked is ‘wrong’ when we all know deep down it isn’t.

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